Curse

bilateralrope · Oct 08, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

After just helping a guildie get through Vizunah Square on his survivor character, and taking 4 attempts before we could sync up our team, I've started thinking that there should be some way to easily chose which team from the other side you want to party with. This should have several advantages:

- You can easily avoid the PUGs.
- It will reduce the number of times you enter a mission there, only to have the other team leave when they see that you aren't who they want to play alongside. We did this to 5 separate teams while trying to sync together.
- If you are arranging a synced guild group, you won't have to keep restarting until you manage to meet up.

As to how this can be implemented, here is a possible method:

When you click the enter mission button, a window pops up showing a list of all the teams on both sides who are at this step (including the henchmen teams), and a chat channel only usable by people at this step. When you select a team thats on the other side, they get asked if they want to join you. If they accept (naturally the henchman team will accept instantly) you go in with them immediately, if they reject you then you don't.

Another possible implementation would be where you can only sync up if you know the name of the party leader on the other team.

As I'm only intending to use this syncing for guild groups where we will know the other party leaders name, I don't care which of the implementations gets chosen. If you have a preference on which implementation you want, please state it.

Winterclaw · Oct 08, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Instead of a pop-up window, how about just talking to an NPC who'll take you to the mission area. All you need to do is give him an extra button for people who specifically want to synchronize with another team or would prefer an NPC team. That way people who don't want to bother and would rather trust their luck wouldn't have to go through an extra step.

Melody Cross · Oct 08, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

I like this idea for vizunah and unwaking waters. They're the only missions in any game that require you to play with people and characters you might not wish to. If a guild can get the players they need together to organize a team for these missions, I think they should have an option that would allow them to link up and play together.

/signed

darkknightkain · Oct 08, 2007, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Nah, Anet should just work on fixing the Minion bug... Even if just have Shiro kill all the minions in the cutscene along with your MM will suffice.

Seriously, the "Dishonourable" effect really should work on preventing cappers and leavers entering pve missions as well.

If not for the frequent leavers, Vizunah Square/Unwaking Waters would have been so much better for everyone.

bilateralrope · Oct 08, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknightkain

Nah, Anet should just work on fixing the Minion bug... Even if just have Shiro kill all the minions in the cutscene along with your MM will suffice.

Seriously, the "Dishonourable" effect really should work on preventing cappers and leavers entering pve missions as well.

If not for the frequent leavers, Vizunah Square/Unwaking Waters would have been so much better for everyone.

Would you trust a masters attempt to a PUG you formed in a mission outpost ?

How about if your working on a survivor character ?

Now consider that, unlike the PUGs in the mission outpost which you can leave if you don't like, you don't have any say at all over the other team here. After the Factions release the main problem I had with Vizunah was that the other team regularly had trouble keeping Togo or Mehnlo alive up till when we met up with each other.

And this is without even considering the bug at the end cutscene, which might of been fixed already.

And if you implement the leavers penalty, what about when someone decides that you are going to complete the mission for him, while he does nothing ?
Do you:
- Leave and take the penalty
- Give him his free ride
- Wait for him to leave

Allowing sync teams allows guildies to work together much more reliably without aiding the leechers. Vote-kicking people in PvE hasn't gone down well whenever its been bought up before, so you can't add that to counter them.

Zahr Dalsk · Oct 08, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Go to international district.

bilateralrope · Oct 08, 2007, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Go to international district.

We tried that, even with no other groups forming there, we still got paired with groups, even though the international districts were empty.

Antheus · Oct 08, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Since we're talking normal mode here.

Ever since the distinction was made, and normal mode simplified, both of these missions can be completed by a single group of 8. What other group chooses to do is mostly irrelevant.

Since I had to do skill capping in vizunah, which meant running the mission lots and lots of times, I've encountered just about everything.

Yet there was nothing in that mission that couldn't be brute forced with pure H/H team. If other group serves as nothing but minion fodder, it's not that difficult.

This mission was borderline when there were only henchies. But with heroes which allow for some serious DPS, that's really no longer the case. And it shouldn't be a problem even without them.

It may take a bit of thought into necessary group protection, but these missions really aren't that difficult, especially since they were both: simplified, with AI and damage nerfs, and through addition of heroes, allowing for the usual brute force builds.

Darkobra · Oct 08, 2007, 11:27 AM // 11:27

I know the feeling. It took me 10 attempts to avoid real people. Useless as they are. Last time I had real people on the other end, we had a bunch of assassins with even an assassin hench. Not a single fatality on my team. Ogden did his job, Olias made minions from the weak.

For Survivor, you don't really need to be careful, you need to be good. I've been reckless on my assassin, rushing into the fray of battle and taking down key targets. I also know when to pull out, what skills to use when and when to heal. Survivor easily.

And as far as I know, isn't Vizunah one of the ones a Survivor should avoid just because of the (supposed) cutscene bug that costs Survivor?

darkknightkain · Oct 08, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

And if you implement the leavers penalty, what about when someone decides that you are going to complete the mission for him, while he does nothing ?
Do you:
- Leave and take the penalty
- Give him his free ride
- Wait for him to leave

I'd gladly give him his free ride IF he at least do the minimal courtesy of i) protect Togo until we arrive or ii) escort Mhenlo to us. From that point on, Mission & Masters is doable even if our side have to do everything ourselves.

What we are talking about here are the people who decide to leave right off the bat and thereby screw the other groups

Such selfish behaviours are something anet should not be encouraging.

VinnyRidira · Oct 08, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

What caps are there in unwaking waters, that you cannot get somewhere else. I hate cappers and people who go into do masters and because that fails leave you high and dry. Moddok Crevice and Abbadons Mouth are candidates for that. It would be nice if we could team up selectively in the two team missions.

MithranArkanere · Oct 08, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

For that case I have an easier solution:

1. Put/modify bosses out of missions so all elites can be capped outside mssions.
2. Disable capture signets during missions.

I never understood why to allow them to work that way. It's annoying to have people laving after a capture.

For the sync. It would be nice to be able to 'join' a certain partner... but it would be a hell of a problem to implement, since connection takes place in two different outposts.

Add a way to contact between two outposts onl for two missions?
I doubt it would be done.

MagmaRed · Oct 08, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

/unsigned

Although I have done Vizunah with a guild group, and synced up for it, I don't think there should be a 'guaranteed' way of syncing.

Why?

It doesn't fit with the story.

When you enter Vizunah Square from the Local Quarter, you only have Togo, and are told you are meeting someone he asked to come to help out. Your characters do not know Mhenlo, and definitely do not know the Foreign Quarter players. When you meet up with them, you know nothing about who they are, what they are, or what they can do.

Now, does this mean I think syncing for those missions should be prevented? No, but making it possible to sync with ANYONE, guildies or strangers, disrupts the story.

bilateralrope · Oct 08, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Since we're talking normal mode here.

My example was normal mode, but this suggestion also applies to hard mode.

Quote:

Ever since the distinction was made, and normal mode simplified, both of these missions can be completed by a single group of 8. What other group chooses to do is mostly irrelevant.

Even masters runs ?

Quote:

Since I had to do skill capping in vizunah, which meant running the mission lots and lots of times, I've encountered just about everything.

I've never understood why people would attempt a skill cap in vizunah square. All the elites in the mission are on randomly selected bosses, and can all be capped shortly afterwards from bosses with guaranteed spawn locations.

Though the one time I did see a capper, when he left his henchmen all died on the spot.

And the most fun I've had in those missions has always been with a synced guild group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknightkain

I'd gladly give him his free ride IF he at least do the minimal courtesy of i) protect Togo until we arrive or ii) escort Mhenlo to us. From that point on, Mission & Masters is doable even if our side have to do everything ourselves.

I was talking about dishonorable over general PvE, where the people who leave or go AFK mid mission are much more of a problem than Vizunah where they leave right away, simply because in Vizunah they waste less of your time.

Quote:

What we are talking about here are the people who decide to leave right off the bat and thereby screw the other groups

Such selfish behaviours are something anet should not be encouraging.

And by allowing syncing, the groups that currently leave right off the bat would have no reason to because they would sync up first time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

It doesn't fit with the story.

So should we stop people mapping between Prophesies and GW:EN because its a 6 year time-jump ?

There is even a quest which requires you to make the time-jump to complete it.

Then there are the Nightfall born characters who jump back 3 years to do the Factions and Prophesies campaigns.

Compared to this, allowing you to meet up with guildies is a very minor plot hole.

So if your against this because it doesn't fit the storyline, why don't you ask for the other plot holes to get removed ?

draxynnic · Oct 09, 2007, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Even masters runs ?

Two MM heroes. Elementalists also help a lot. I think the only time I've failed to get Masters since heroes were introduced was when I was helping someone through who didn't have them.

Quote:

I've never understood why people would attempt a skill cap in vizunah square. All the elites in the mission are on randomly selected bosses, and can all be capped shortly afterwards from bosses with guaranteed spawn locations.

For some characters, this may be the first chance to cap an elite for their primary profession (Canthan Rangers and Ritualists, for example). So it can be worth the risk to avoid having to go into Dragon's Lair afterwards, and if it pays off it means you actually have an elite for the rest of the mission as well. And unless you have a Nightfall class, the chance of at least one of your possible caps coming up is 75%.

That only applies to going through for the first time, though. Once you have the Dragon's Throat outpost activated, that's a better bet - once you know where the various bosses are in there it's generally fairly simple to beeline to the one you want if you're careful.

Quote:

There is even a quest which requires you to make the time-jump to complete it.

Actually, that quest does actually modify the zones - instead of going into the past as you normally do when you go into those zones, you're going into them as they are in GWEN-time.

gameshoes3003 · Oct 09, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

/signed
I don't see how you can't get a Masters on Unwaking waters with a random group...
I do...
But anyway this sounds very convenient.

Melody Cross · Oct 09, 2007, 04:42 AM // 04:42

convenience is half of the reason. Many players do not want to pug. Anywhere else in the game, they don't have to.

bilateralrope · Oct 10, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Two MM heroes. Elementalists also help a lot. I think the only time I've failed to get Masters since heroes were introduced was when I was helping someone through who didn't have them.

Even if you run into a PUG who also is bringing two minion masters ?

Quote:

For some characters, this may be the first chance to cap an elite for their primary profession (Canthan Rangers and Ritualists, for example). So it can be worth the risk to avoid having to go into Dragon's Lair afterwards, and if it pays off it means you actually have an elite for the rest of the mission as well. And unless you have a Nightfall class, the chance of at least one of your possible caps coming up is 75%.

That only applies to going through for the first time, though. Once you have the Dragon's Throat outpost activated, that's a better bet - once you know where the various bosses are in there it's generally fairly simple to beeline to the one you want if you're careful.

Yes its understandable for people to try and cap on their first run through. But if its your first run you would also want the mission, meaning you wouldn't leave after the cap. Its the people who get the cap and leave I don't understand.

Quote:

Actually, that quest does actually modify the zones - instead of going into the past as you normally do when you go into those zones, you're going into them as they are in GWEN-time.

True, I forgot about that. Lets try this:

Nightfall is 3 years after Prophesies. I don't remember this quest changing any of the spawns in the crystal desert. And before you try and say that the desert doesn't change over time, I refer you to Aurek the Scarab Hunter who seems to be saying that Kepkhet moves around a lot, meaning I doubt she would stay in one place for 3 years.

BlackSephir · Oct 10, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

/unsigned

It doesn't fit with the story.

Seriously, it's not crpg, book or something else. It's a CORPG.
Trying to justify things that happen in GW's mechanics with story is fail.
lol y i cant rezzor Rurik/Togo??????///

lol how r people dying here with all dis rez shrines??/